done. >> grover norquist holds no elected offense, no official title. he's a lobbyist, president of americans for tax reform. he's been a central figure in this and every tabs debate washington has had for 20 years. for those two decks aid, his position on taxes has been simple -- don't raise them, no time, ever, never. this time he says the senate tax deal is kind of sort of okay and that's got a lot of people somewhat confused. grover norquist johns us now. you said the voting for this deal, which increases taxes on households earning more than 450,000 annually would not violate your pledge that lawmakers make to their constituents. help our viewers understand that. lawmakers who sign that pledge promised to oppose any effort increase tax rates for individuals, for businesses. howe does the fiscal cliff deal not violate that pledge. >> it's technically not a violation of the pledge. but i understand why a lot of republicans have said, look, even though what's happening is the tax cuts disappear and we're restoring them for for most people, so we're not raising taxes, we're actu